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CBR929 post start clunk [message #212344] Fri, 14 May 2010 17:41 Go to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Just curious about this but after I start my 929 after its been sitting for a few hours+, I usually hear a few clunks from the engine within 1/2sec or so then nice an quiet idling so I;m certain there's nothing serious wrong especially as its always done this and if I cast my mind back to 2001 when I bought my first 929, I remember that doing it too.

All I can think it might be would be the stater motors mechanism retracting away from the starter gear and maybe not doing it cleanly.

Does anyone else get these clunks or know what it is?
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212349 is a reply to message #212344] Fri, 14 May 2010 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swiss T  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 5167
Registered: February 2004
Location: Sunny Stockport
(14) Eddie Lawson
Its the gas sliding slap joint Si; just recalibrate the inertial dampners & reset the jigly whatsit.
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212407 is a reply to message #212344] Sat, 15 May 2010 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline Kakugo  ITALY
Messages: 3377
Registered: August 2003
Location: Lugdunon
(11) MotoGP Podium Finisher
I don't remember anything similar happening to my 929.
My guess if it doesn't become worryingly noisy just don't pay attention to it.
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212451 is a reply to message #212407] Sun, 16 May 2010 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline SP2 Riley  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 3968
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
(11) MotoGP Podium Finisher
probably a bit of lash in the starter gear or the gear box shaft's but if its gone in 1/2 a second its removed by oil pressure so fine bud.
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212492 is a reply to message #212344] Sun, 16 May 2010 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thanks for your input Swiss, I'll try that as soon as I can figure it out Laugh

Ive been holding post as I expected lots of replies confirming they get (or got) the same but sounds like its only me which seems odd given that I remember it on my original 929 which i bought new. As mentioned, its probably just the starter gears or something in the gearbox thats fixed as soon as the oil pressure increases.

As a test (if I remember) next time I go for a ride I may give the starter a few half hearted stabs to get the oil pressure up (light off) without actually starting it, then give it a normal stab and see if it occurs
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212503 is a reply to message #212492] Sun, 16 May 2010 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andy_scouser is currently offline andy_scouser  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 3296
Registered: June 2003
Location: Liverpool
(11) MotoGP Podium Finisher
I have been trying to remember my 929 and I'm 90% certain I too got a clunk too. But not 100% as tbh the bike was a1 so it never worried me.
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212504 is a reply to message #212503] Sun, 16 May 2010 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andy_scouser is currently offline andy_scouser  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 3296
Registered: June 2003
Location: Liverpool
(11) MotoGP Podium Finisher
andy_scouser wrote on Sun, 16 May 2010 23:07
I have been trying to remember my 929 and I'm 90% certain I too got a clunk too. But not 100% as tbh the bike was a1 so it never worried me.

Is it not the power valve thingamyjig?
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212507 is a reply to message #212504] Sun, 16 May 2010 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
damn........u got me standing out of my chair to go start the bike under laboratory conditions* before I realise its 11.30pm and my exhaust isn't overly quiet. Will have to wait till tomorrow Wall

Then if nothing heard with my stethoscope from the valve, I'll wait a day then try again in the starter motor area Thumbs Up


*screwdriver to component and ear
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212565 is a reply to message #212507] Mon, 17 May 2010 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yorkie is currently online Yorkie  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 1183
Registered: August 2003
Location: North Yorkshire
(8) 250 GP Racer

They probably all do it Kerm, it's just that the rest of us are too f*****g old to hear it. eek eek

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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212577 is a reply to message #212565] Mon, 17 May 2010 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pecker is currently offline pecker  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 2151
Registered: September 2003
Location: kent
(8) 250 GP Racer
yep my 929 does it,

the odd clunk just after it starts then i dont hear it again

always wondered what it was
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212579 is a reply to message #212577] Mon, 17 May 2010 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Almost forgot to ttest but its only 9.30 so think I'll can risk it


brb
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #212581 is a reply to message #212579] Mon, 17 May 2010 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Tried the stethoscope on the HTEV but its not that making the noise unless its a noise coming from its motor.

I then quickly stopped engine and moved onto the rear of the engine block but like I suspected you only get one shot every 2+ hrs when the engine is properly cold so can't test again till tomorrow now Sad
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #214823 is a reply to message #212581] Thu, 10 June 2010 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SPAL is currently offline SPAL  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 842
Registered: June 2009
Location: London
(7) 125 GP Winner
I read most posts and think "that Kermits a sensible bloke"

BUT

YOUR USING A STETHOSCOPE , EVEN MECHANICS USE A SCREWDRIVER TO THE EAR.

GET A LIFE<

ITS YOUR WORM GEAR ON THE STARTER MOTOR NOT DROPPING OFF FULLY ON FIRST APPLICATION.

Have a nice day......



SPal..

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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #214828 is a reply to message #214823] Thu, 10 June 2010 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
I'm not using a real stethoscope, like you its the name I give to my longest screwdriver Laugh

and thanks for the diagnosis as til now I only had an inkling it might be that but I reckon your right Thumbs Up

probably nothing that needs fixing or worth taking the starter motor off and doing something with it? Confused
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #214874 is a reply to message #214828] Fri, 11 June 2010 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SPAL is currently offline SPAL  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 842
Registered: June 2009
Location: London
(7) 125 GP Winner
Hi Kermett

Glad you didn't get hump with my last post, when I saw the subject highlighted in red i wondered if i should risk opening it, but i supose as i'm not bared (yet) i must have got away with it.

Its hard to know if something needs action or is just livable with, I have same on cbr6, vibration from behind clocks around 2/3k, is it worth a stripdown, who knows?

SPal
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #214890 is a reply to message #214874] Sat, 12 June 2010 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline Kermit  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 15065
Registered: June 2003
Location: Leeds
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Don't think I've ever barred anyone except for those that join purely to spam or advertise or the occasional snooping ex-wife/husband. If you promise to stop spelling my name like a Indian takeaway, you'll survive Wink Laugh

tbh I didn't take any offence anyway as once i looked back at my post and realised I hadn't made it clear my stethoscope is the same as yours, i could see how it must have read. That said, if i were a doctor and had one already, I'm pretty sure it'd get used Doh

as for the clunk, its still there from cold, but I think for now I'll leave it till next time i have the tank off and I'll see if there's anyway to get the starter motor out without too much extra ballache Thumbs Up
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #214969 is a reply to message #214890] Sat, 12 June 2010 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SPAL is currently offline SPAL  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 842
Registered: June 2009
Location: London
(7) 125 GP Winner
Phew,

If its any help, i've seen car starter motors bench tested off vehicle by clamping in vice, connecting jump leads from battery to + & - and then putting a + feed onto the solenoid to energise.

Can't see why same principle wouldn't apply with yours.

Problem,

Can't see the point, I think everything points towards the noise coming from the starter motor and it may be terminal at some point in the future, but when, who knows?

I think that if it where mine, and I had removed the starter, I would attempt to turn engine by hand one rotation, checking teeth on flywheel ( or whatever it may be called on a bike). (the gear the starter motor meshes on). If theres no damage to the teeth, I cant see what else, bar fit another starter motor, you can do.

AS other posts say there 929's do the same thing, I would be tempted to leave alone, but, as I stated when you queried the cost of a 1k paint job on a 1.5K bike, its your money and your bike and you are the only one who can decide what you do with it.

SPal Twisted Evil
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #216844 is a reply to message #214969] Sun, 04 July 2010 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SPAL is currently offline SPAL  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 842
Registered: June 2009
Location: London
(7) 125 GP Winner
Hi Kermit,

Few thoughts on your clunk.

Pulled starter motor off my blade today and was suprised as its a totally different design to the "car type" that I was expecting.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16249&private=0

Shaft on motor locates in a secondary gear which in turn locates onto a large "ring gear" behind generator flywheel.

On a car type the starter flys out when it spins up, locating in the ring gear and then dropping off when not powered up.

Bike type appears only to spin, unless theres some kind of internal clutch which causes it to stop???? (doubtful).

Therefore I wondered if the clunk could be from the gear that the motor locates in.

Pulling the motor out will only tell you condition of splines on motor, not much else.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16251&private=0

As yuo can see from pic, smaller gear appears permenantly meshed between ring gear and motor gear (comes through hole, there isnt sufficent end float to allow them to become unmeshed.).

So maybe were back to the motor again? Confused

Can't see that motor would stay engaged all the time, as surely this would burn it out?

SPal

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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #216847 is a reply to message #212344] Sun, 04 July 2010 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently online Quazi  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 10683
Registered: March 2004
Location: Hiding behind Hadrian's W...
(21) Valentino Rossi
Think you'll find there is a "starter clutch" inside the motor housing.
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Re: CBR929 post start clunk [message #216860 is a reply to message #216847] Sun, 04 July 2010 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
SPAL is currently offline SPAL  UNITED KINGDOM
Messages: 842
Registered: June 2009
Location: London
(7) 125 GP Winner
Quazi,

Yeah, after I posted it and went and had another look at the bike came to the same conclusion.

Having said that, now I understand bit more about bike starter geartrain (if thats a word), I am doubtful if the noise is coming directly from the motor. As I can't see whats in there that would need to wait 2+ hours to re occur.

Does sound more like oil related. AS when engine @ standstill oil drains away from something, which then knocks on start up.

Kermit.

Did you ever do the test you mentioned - spinning up with kill switch off to raise oil pressure and then starting?

SPal
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